Can the sith LOGICALLY come back? Let me answer with a question.After the first Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles film, did you think Shredder could LOGICALLY come back? But he came back and drank the secret ooze to become Super Shredder in the 2nd turtles movie. In the 3rd film, they go back in time to the 1600's Japan to fight the ancestors of Shredder. Based on this alone, the 7th Star Wars can have Sidious climbing out of the same garbage land-fill that Shredder crawled out of or they could go back in time to the 1600's to fight the ancestors of Sidious in ancient sith Japan.
Logically, there is nothing to prevent the Sith from returning. As far as we know the Dark Side still exists, so the potential is there for the Sith to rise again. In fact considering how the previous Rule of Two worked out for them, you might think a revision of that strategy might be in order.
Well then the protagonist can't be connected to any of the characters we know because if they are then they can't really be in mundane or normal circumstances. This seems unlikely.TPM actually did do this but 17 minutes was quite long to introduce Luke and not have too much happen. Anakin coming in at 30+ (whatever the exact timing) was just too long to have not much happen. It wouldn't work besides the amount of set-up however garbled to the audience with the used universe ethic couldn't be applied to any other film the same way the first one was. The backstory that the first film had was massively changed anyway.
You know, I can picture Luke going into hiding to train some kids that he managed to find many years after the events in ROTJ.
My idea which is somewhat based on the EU. I'll try to keep it short.Episode 7:Luke rebuilt the Jediorder but there are still few (~10) Jedi. Two of those are the twins Jaina and Jacen Solo. They love each other but squabble all the time. They are the protagonists while the Big Three stay on the sidelines.Jaina views the force as a tool and thinks the Jedi should stay grounded in "reality". She even uses gadgets an armor during fights.Jacen thinks the Jedi should exclusively focus on the force.Both are prodigies of the new order.Suddenly, the Mandalorians surprise attack the Republic, lead by an ultra-masculine Mandalor who is allied to a mysterious Sith Lady. She is bitter, philosophical, cold and utterly ruthless. She also hates Luke Skywalkers guts for mysterious reasons.A couple battles happen until there is a big battle in the end about an important shipyard planet/Coruscant/for some reason important planet. Han with falcon saves the youngsters butts once.Luke is worried because he can't explain how the Sith could reappear.In the big confrontation the Sith Lady gives a speech that she is "Darth Vaders real heir" and she will fulfill his will by bringing the Republic to its knees no matter what. Fight with her and the Mandalorians is extremely tough. Jacen is taken prisoner.Episode 8:Sith Lady wants to turn Jacen, as killing Luke wouldn't really be revenge, considering he is a Jedi and all. She puts ideas into Jacens head that balance in the force means there should be equal Sith and Jedi and therefore the force is unbalanced right now.Meanwhile Jaina wants to rescue her brother but first she must find out where he is. She hunts for clues concerning mystery Sith Lady and this brings her into enemy territory. She stumbles about a big and possibly devastating attack plan of the Mandalorians and now has to bring the information to the republic no matter what. While she does this she hooks up with a Mandalorian deserter who she finds pretty attractive.A race to bring information to republic authorities begins, involving a couple battles.In the end she meets with Han and Leia and Luke. But then Lady Sith attacks and Jacen is with her, turned bad. Either Han or Leia die, killed by her blade. You can plainly see how uncomfortable Jacen is about that, but he still remains Sith. Jaina manages to bring the crucial information before the republic.Episode 9:Republic prepares for big battle.Jaina wonders if she can turn her brother back to the light as so far he never went against family.It is reveled through a holocrone Jacen finds that the mysterious Sith Lady was a secret apprentice of Vaders, basically his foster daughter. That he sacrificed his life for Luke made her intensely jealous and fueled her hatred.Then the epic confrontation + final battle follows. Not sure how to end it all. Jacen might go back lightside, might not.
1. Some interesting ideas e.g., Lady Sith connection to Vader.2. It's hard to imagine this happening 40 years after ROTJ, maybe 5-10 years after.3.This story is very Solocentric and no longer includes the Skywalkers.4. I remember GL explaining to Alec Guiness why Ben was killed off in ANH; simple awkwardness, there was nothing left for the character to do. Could be what happens to Luke.5. Another OP postulated that each trilogy moves the characters from realm to realm. PT=Physical Realm, OT=Spiritual Realm, and the ST=The Metaphysical Realm. In other words, Jedi learned how to come use the force to comeback to the physical world. Then they learned to communicate from the spirit to the physical. Maybe in the ST they learn how to act in the physical world as spirits in the OT. I thought that was dynamic.Anyway, good ideas. Thanks for sharing.
Potential Villain Idea:Powerful Force sorceress, independent of the Jedi and Sith, and NOT dark-side, creates a following and becomes "The Liberator" (contrast with "The Emperor.")-I'm picturing her a beautiful, exotic female alien... perhaps a yellow Twilek with 2 orange lightsabers... just for something very different visuallyShe is basically a light-side version of Dooku, and her movement is very similar to the idealists in both the Separatist movement and Rebellion... but without shady corporate/political elements. Another person to compare her to is Daenerys Targaryen of Game of Thrones. Or perhaps Galadriel with the One Ring.The Force Sorceress, the Liberator, studied from the holocron of Darth Plagueis but has found a way to create life and save people from dying WITHOUT going to the dark side. She wants to create a galactic paradise, and views the new Republic and its Jedi as a stagnant relic. She blames Luke Skywalker for reverting to the old status quo, instead of trying to fix it and come up with something new and stronger. As "The Liberator," she and her followers begin liberating neglected and corrupt worlds that are at least nominally in the Republic, like Tatooine, and begins to free the Slaves and to treat Droids as equals. The Liberator has no mercy, and ruthlessly kills slave owners and droid owners who won't set their "property" free, and her armies and fleets battle whoever stands in the way of her "liberations," which the Republic and Jedi see as invasions.The Jedi and Republic are afraid she's a dark-sider or a Sith, but she IS aligned with the light side, just more ruthless/merciless and not afraid to act as jury, judge, and executioner. The "Liberator" sees herself as bringing Freedom and Justice to the galaxy.... freeing the slaves/droids/commoners and exacting justice against their oppressors... as doing what Anakin Skywalker was supposed to do. She sees herself as creating a new galactic society, which is neither Republic or Empire but something new and stronger... as Luke Skywalker was supposed to do. She also uses her Force talents to heal the sick and maimed, and restore whole worlds (perhaps she makes Tatooine her capital, and transforms it into a living world again.)Perhaps, at one point, the Liberator captures Luke Skywalker and puts him on trial (to show the contrast). She accuses Luke of not exacting justice on Darth Vader, giving him mercy instead, saying saving his son does not make up for committing or not stopping atrocities in the Empire, from the Youngling Massacre to Alderaan. Luke says he shows mercy to anyone who can be redeemed... and then the Liberator asks where his mercy was when he blew up the Death Star, or cut through dozens/hundreds of Stormtroopers (a SLAVE army) without a second thought... accusing him of nepotism. Perhaps she accuses him of being a Slave Owner, of R2-D2, as well as never returning to help his own homeworld.If done right, she could get the Jedi and Republic asking themselves if they're really the villains. The Liberator's ruthlessness and lack of mercy, unable to see the importance of redemption and seeing the good in even the worst people, would probably be her undoing. But she could get the other side to see their own flaws, and create a better society, like the Liberator advocated for, except with some mercy, forgiveness, and possibility of redemption.
Thanks for feedback.About the Solocentrism: The plot would work just as well with Skywalkers or a Solo and a Skywalker. I chose Solos because then Han and Leia have business being in the movies.Luke has to survive here at least until Episode 9 because he is the main motivation of the main villain.
It is interesting to see Sam Witwer wants in on Episode VII; difficult to see how Starkiller or the Dark Apprentice clone can maintain existence for 40 years and remain uneffected by age. But, still, might be an interesting sub-plot.(worth noting, Galen Marek was apparently included in the live-action Underworld TV series)
I guess Carbonid is an option. I could live with that as I enjoyed Witwers work in TCW.But honestly I'd prefer Disney simply cast another, much older actor as Vaders former apprentice, if they go that route. Age and experience doesn't hurt a Sith.In any case I agree with KevinM1 that resurrecting Plagueis, Sidious or Vader would be pretty lame.
The writers probably meet with George Lucas everyday over some coffee because the writers are still in the transition of adopting Star Wars from Lucas.So, Lucas will tell the writers all sorts of things about how to feed this baby called Star Wars. How to burp the baby when it has hiccups and other disconnections between the canon films and the ST.George Lucas is like the training wheels of the movie making bike. Someday, the writers will not need the training wheels named Lucas and Lucas will be too old and rusty and they will probably become better at this job someday than Lucas was but for now, Lucas will be around for a few more years having coffee with them and sharing a few laughs with the younger writers.Arnt and/or whoever is writing the ST is probably asking Lucas right now, "What if we had this happen, and you know, boom boom, and then that happens, does that still feel Star Wars Like to you?"Lucas replies, "Gee, with all the lens flare, and the design of the ships makes me think about Star Trek, not Star Wars. Folks, try not to make everything look like Battlestar Galatica. Star Wars happened a long time ago (not yesterday), back when space was like a 2-d dimensional water ocean sea battle played on your 2-d 8-bits Nintendo Entertainment System (NES 1985)."
To be honest, I don't think Star Wars is that hard to "grasp". Abrams and Arndt won't need those training wheels much.They might even do a better job than Lucas himself did with the PT. Where did you get that impression? SW space battles are fairly three-dimensional, especially the one in ANH. A lot of the maneuvers of the fighters were modeled after WWII tactics.
can someone please tell me why noones doing the sw novels? because this has bean bugging me for years tks.
All I know is that JJ Abrams need to set the tone for this movie very quickly. Picture this scenerio: After a fierce space battle Jacen Solo's ship is disabled and being pulled in by tractor beam into some modern looking Star Destroyer. Then out of hyperspace comes the Millenium Falcon with Han and Chewie manning the guns and Lando at the helm. After making a several attempts at disrupting Star Destroyer with their laser connons, Han decides in the nick-of-time to ram the Falcon into the ship's Tractor Beam to save his son life. Han's last words" Over my dead body!" .....Boom!!!!!Brief, heroic and sudden. This is the tone that J.J Abrams should place within the first 15 minutes of SW Episode:VII. By doing this he establishes the idea that no character is safe in this film and anyone can depart at anytime. Its what the new trilogy desperately needs in order to capture not only our attention but to give it some realism.
Yes I beleive in order to create some kind of realism, Something drastic needs to happen in the first 15 minutes of this film. If not, what's the point of watching if you know the main characters are not going to die! I want everyone in their seat biting their nails!
I like the idea of no character being safe; not sure I want that idea to materialize in the first 15 minutes though.
I definitely agree there needs to be a sense that no character is safe but I would like the OT cast to have more screen time than fifteen minutes so the filmmakers can set up the drama and then make us all ball like babies! Oh, and that goes double for Luke.
Well if you kill off three (Han, Chewie and Lando) in the first 15 minutes you are still left with four (Luke, Leia, R2 and C3PO). Not to mention the others that made it past Episode VI like General Ackabr, Nien Nunb, Mon Mothma and such. I just want everyone saying now what?
Only have Han Solo die if he have to. Do not just have Han Solo run the Falcon into a Destroyer to blow up. There has to be alternatives to just blowing yourself up to save others. Han can die saving others but not in that kind of way. I am kind of ok with how Kenobi left in ANH. The way the master of Kenobi died is a little more likable than the way Kenobi disappears. The Maul death scene might be my favorite. But I fine with Maul coming back for the Clone Wars. But maybe I kind of like the way Mace Windu dies, even through I would love to see that he survives. The way that Bobba Fetts "dies" or not is comical because Han Solo triggers it by accident. I am kind of ok with the order 66 with how the jedi are killed.The way the Emperor dies is probably the most memorable death because it meant that the Star "WARS" were over for the last 30 years until now that they are announcing that 3 more wars or more are coming.The way that Anakin's legs get sliced from Kenobi, even through he does not die, is one of the saddest and most moving deaths of any I have ever seen. In a way, the good in Anakin dies then in ROTS until Luke resurrects the good out of Vader in ROTJ.So the death of characters like Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, Leia, Lando, Chewbacca, etc, have to be done extremely well. The bar is set so high.
Standard heroic sacrifice exactly like in Star Trek 2009 and by flying a little ship into a big ship (extremely overdone in Star Wars)? Meh. I'd rather first get a feeling for the characters and their situation before someone bites it.
Bruce Willis in the film Armageddon dies saving the world. he is the standard. He had to press the button manually. But when Luke Skywalker pressed a similar button like what Bruce Willis pressed, Luke was able to run off and died. Maybe they should have had Kenobi blow up the death Star in A New Hope. Then Kenobi would have died in the same way that Bruce Willis died. The Death Star sort of looks like a big rock heading to blow up earth.Kenobi could have died blowing up a rock called the Death Star.Bruce Willis died blowing up a big rock as well.Bruce Willis died saving the world. Kenobi died but in a different less cool way.Both Luke and Lando didn't have to die blowing up the death Stars.If Lando is not in the new films, then have him die blowing up the Death Star 2.Edit the Return of the Jedi to make Lando and the Falcon die.Or have Lando climb out of the Falcon to manually press a bomb button like they did in Independence Day or in how Bruce Willis dies in Armageddon.
But thats just it, We know these characters. Why would you need to get a feel for them? And I agree the flying the little ship into the big one has been done but not by the Falcon and in this universe there is no beaming out! (There are excape pods though- LOL)! Regardless, say Han, Chewie and Lando were on there way to Bespin to deliver a crate of seismic charges when they get the distress call from Leia that Jacen is in trouble. They arive at the coordinates given and the battle ensues. Before they decide to ram the ship, Lando gets the idea to program all the charges to explode upon impact. It would be hugh!!
No we don't know the characters. We don't know what happened to Han in 40 years. Is he still exactly the same, flying around in the falcon and spouting catch phrases like "over my dead body" or has he changed, evolved? I doubt he is still a smuggler. Is he working for the alliance? Is he an entrepreneur? Is he a flight instructor?I mean, I have no problems if Han once gets into the falcon and saves the youngsters butts (dying in the process optional), but first I wanna know who he is now.This applies to the other big three as well. I want to know where they stand right now before they get killed off.
Taking the leaked "disciple of Palpatine" and "rebuilding the Sith armies" approach it would be great to see a whole new Sith character emerge in the sequel trilogy with origins in the Jedi Order around Order 66. It couldn't follow the A'Sharad Hett model but it could be a powerful Jedi that survived the Temple attack. After being on the run for years, he is tracked down by Vader and Palpatine. He encounters trials and turns to the dark side and then becomes one of the Emperor's Hands. After Palpatine's failure at Endor, the disciple changes the Sith code and decides it would be better if they went back to the days of the Sith Empire. He seeks recruits from Luke's New Jedi Order and rebuilds the Imperial Remnant into the galactic superpower they once were, and so on....Just an idea but I think it would be interesting
He was a member who used to post some pretty crazy things. He was pretty hilarious most of the time and that post reminded me of some of the things he would write.
I had a crazy dream last night. It was incredibly detailed and, for the most part, made some sense:Lucasfilm was sending out thousands of surveys, asking fans what kind of fans they are. I took one, and a week later got an invite to Skywalker Ranch! Turns out they wanted to gather a small group of fans and run the plot of Episode VII by them. Sort of a test pitch.The plot went like this:30 years after ROTJ, the Republic is slowly returning to its pre-Empire state. Mon Mothma is the Supreme Chancellor, Leia is her advisor. Leia's children are Jedi in training, and are also acting as Republic representatives, peacefully meeting with leaders of planets who have yet to rejoin the Republic. Seems once the Empire was dissolved, some planets were weary of returning to the Republic after what went down with Palpatine creating the Empire.However, Imperial Loyalists who believe in the old ways are still active in the galaxy. While most saw them as too small to be a threat, the Imperial Loyalists have begin to grow in numbers, thanks to select corporations and underworld factions joining the Loyalists. The leader is revealed to be a male human Jedi who survived the purge, and does not trust Leia and Luke, the offspring of the man who killed many of the Jedi. This Jedi believes in a more militaristic Republic, and believes that he should be the one to lead the New Jedi Order. No Skywalker should be involved. So sort of a Jedi Civil War is going on.During the pitch (in the dream) the LFL employee noted that the Jedi leading the Imperial Loyalists was in training when the purge went down, and he had to complete his training by hiring a former Jedi turned bounty hunter named Ventress. Ventress is not in the movie (apparently she is alive, but is old and inactive), and the Jedi character fights in her style.It sounded like Ventress's distrust in the Jedi Order rubbed off on the male Jedi. He's not so much a bad guy, but a Jedi with a different point of view on how the Order should be run. The character came off as sort of a Han Solo Jedi, who may turn to the hero side in future films. Perhaps being betrayed by the Imperial Loyalists - sort of like how Maul betrayed the Death Watch, or how Harry Potter's Malfoy was a good person in a bad position.The dream ended with the fans giving suggestions - I recall I suggested that gungans be in the background on Coruscant, and that there be a mix of PT and OT aliens. I also wanted a Battle Droid cameo. lol
He left us much too soon. He was only here for a short time but his memory will linger on in every post we write, every thread we make.
No. No, he is not. But, because of his insights, Darth Tenebrous will be the villain and it will take place on Earth. God bless you, Joey, wherever you may be...
As Anakin was the only Jedi to marry/spawn children and eventually turned to the dark side, there should be strong implications within the New Order if Luke/Leia were to wed or have their own children. It would violate the Jedi mantras against emotional attachment and familial dynasties. A third generation Skywalker, or legacy candidate for the Jedi Council, could become an outcast thus creating a schism in the New Order and all sorts of plot implications. STAR WARS Episode VII - The Legacy Code.
The thing is the Jedi what Republic-wide testing to find Force sensitives as well as an established infrastructure. Both are gone after the Clone Wars. I don't see the New Republic rebuilding it that fast because they'll have a ton of other priorites. And what are they going to tell people? "We are going to take your kid away and train them under Darth Vader's son, who has zero experience raising children...and oh by the way the only girl he's ever kissed is his sister". I doubt Anakin was the only Jedi to ever have a kid. Second, no all Jedi are uptight and follow the code. Qui-Gon broke the code often enough that his own apprentice would scold him about it. Dooku was one of many who left the Order outright. While I don't see a ton of Jedi off-shoot branches, I'm sure there were at least a few Masters that when their own way.I think it should be less of a Code and more like guidelines.
The story for Star Wars 7 should be about Luke's son and Hans and Leias kids. The movie focus on Luke's son, Ben Skywalker who is struggling in life and how as he grows up to be a great Jedi. All the younglings face a threat named Starkiller who is trying to destroy the galaxy and the Jedis. I call it Star Wars VII: The Jedi Path
The gungans should be destroyed in a last ditch attempt by the Imperial Remnant (or whatever else it is) before being 'stopped' (ie 'assisted' hehehe) by Luke Skywalker and the New RepublicBut I'd also like to see Han and Leia's kids and their attempts to do stuff...
A Sith God take over the empireluke dies in the first movie leading a new hero tospawn in the midst of are eyesDarth whom may whom lolmakes the plot even more enjoyablethen what it once was
Am I the only one that doesn't want to see "all Jedi, all the time" in Episode 7?Han and Leia's kids, as they exist in the EU are nothing to write home about. And the formula doesn't work because there are basically 3 main characters. You don't have three main character worthy characters. And there has to be a least a little bit of romance between two of the three, which is impossible if they are related.
Not a huge part of the plot, but I think I'd like to see the following start off one of the Episodes (probably VII).It starts off with a Corellian Corvette sized (or slightly smaller) ship coming and docking at a large space station (maybe orbiting Nar Shaddaa). Armored figures walk out of it. One is Boba Fett, the other in some other kind of armor, maybe not Mandalorian at all. As they walk through the hanger two people are loading cargo onto a small ship. One (played by Daniel Logan) looks up, turns to the other (played by Temuera Morrison) and says "Dad, look". Both scowl and the latter talks into a commlink, then board their ship.The armored figures get to the detention area and the following scene occurs...http://boards.theforce.net/threads/how-should-the-big-3-be-first-presented-on-screen.50011892/page-4 At some point before they make it back to there ship a door opens and Han comes face to face with the real Boba Fett and another in Mandalorian armor. Fight happens. Heroes escape, either back to the ship they came in on or the Millennium Falcon.You're welcome JJ, now you just need to fill the other 105 to 120 minutes.
Given the unfortunate series of photos of Mr. Hamil in a now-locked thread, perhaps EPVII could start off in a "Rocky" like fashion. When the galaxy is threatened by "the most awesome, powerful force ever encountered" or some other dire set-up, the new republic realizes they must turn to the Jedi for help. But Luke has been a failure: always afraid of becoming like his father, he turned away from the Jedi Order. Yoda comes out of force ghost retirement to castigate a hard drinking, chain-smoking, burger chomping Luke with lines like "A bum you are!" "Talent to become a good Jedi you had, but instead, became a legbreaker to some cheap, Coruscant loanshark you have!" But then Luke sees the error of his ways, and asks Yoda to train him again: "You're a lot lighter than the last time I carried you around on my back." "That is because one with the Force I have become, you intoxicated half-wit." Luke steadily regains his strength and abilities, and we see scenes of him running through the streets of Coruscant to the Rocky theme, jumping around at the top of the Jedi temple steps. As he gets ready to face "the threat," Yoda encourages him: "Spit nails you will, kid. As said the guy, Force lightning will you eat, and Force thunder you crap. A very dangerous Jedi will you become, very dangerous." Luke: "Uh, about that force lighting stuff - I already did that, and had to use moist towelettes for over a month afterwards. So can we just skip that part?" Luke of course fails miserably and gets pummeled, ironically, into hamburger by "the threat." Thus, the next generation of Jedi must step up to save the galaxy, and Luke goes on to be the spokesman for McDexters, with billions and billions sold: "Remember me? I used to be Luke Skywalker, but McDexters burgers have made me what I am today!"Anyway, it would be a great set-up for EPVIII and IX.
I'll say it again, the Republic must have been left in disarray after the fall of the Empire. Millions of Storm Troopers/ Imperial Soldiers and Admirals scrambling across the galaxy to make sense of everything. The whole situation is ripe for pirates to take advantage of and exploit. I think they should base Episode VII on the Zahn Consortium. This will all lead to the discovery of the Sith Army from the Old Republic towards the finale!
That actually offers some pretty intriguing possibilities. What happened to all the Stormtroopers after EP VI? Look at the chaos that ensued in Iraq when the US abolished the Iraqi army and cashiered all the senior officers. They nearly all became guerilla fighters and terrorists, and fought the US by all kinds of unconventional means. Maybe the bad guy in the ST is someone who rallies the remaining disaffected Stormtroopers to his cause, and uses them as his guerilla force to disrupt the new republic.
I still hold onto my theory that a Galactic Empire does not fall overnight and that, while significantly diminished, the Empire may still exist and the stormtroopers (in upgraded armors) might very well be a rather common sight in Imperial space.
Yeah, but how are you going to have it fall? In the EU they had some guy, who was eventually killed and Usurped by Ysanne Isard. She then lost Coruscant to Rogue Squadron. Zsinj was a big mover in the interim, but he was an independent Warlord and when he fell his own private Empire crumbled. Then about 5 years after RotJ Thrawn launched his campaign and rebuilt the Empire to a certain extent. But he lost the Battle of Bilbringi and died. Yet somehow the Empire managed to recapture Coruscant before Dark Empire and started fighting themselves again until the Cloned Emperor took over (god Dark Empire was a mess). Then afterwards KJA quickly killed off the Empire as an adversary. They somehow went from Rebuilding, to defeated, to taking Coruscant, to being pushed back into a handful of weak, bickering warlords all from 5 ABY to about 8 ABY.Lucas has always been inspired by history. I think one thing you can look at is the Successor States after the death of Alexander the Great. After all, no Senate for the Rebels to turn rule over, just a bunch of regional Governors. Another is post-WW1 Germany with all the Freikorps running around. Basically the template for the modern "failed state" with militias of ex-soldiers running around causing problems.
Your Alexander comparison is fairly on target, as far as I'm concerned. The two defeats of Germany in the World Wars (especially the second one) are a rather different thing, since it was a complete and utter military defeat. The Empire did lose it's leadership, but it's military and navy are all pretty much intact, but of course without a centralised government and pretty much loyal only to their commanding officers, I'd guess.Besides, it's a huge galaxy, it's perfectly acceptable to have multiple governments/factions controlling large chunks of it. Maintaining a unified state after a civil war is hard enough, doing it on a galactic scale would be...a wee bit more challenging, I'd guess.
Actually WW1 wasn't a total military defeat. While the German Army was collapsing there was an Armistice before "total" defeat. Many argue the Allies should have just kept up the offensive all the way to Berlin to "show them a lesson". But it was actually the botched "peace" treaty that led to WW2.
Sorry, kinda skimmed through it. Most of the time I get "they were just the continuation of the same war", so I automatically go into "why they really weren't mode".
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